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  <title>Planning Advisory Service (PAS)</title>
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  <subtitle>Welcome to the Planning Advisory Service discussion forum. You're joining over 1300 planning people who come together to ask questions, learn from each other and to network. We operate separate forums to make it easier to ask and answer questions.

Most people here are planning professionals, but anyone is welcome to contribute. Remember that the better your question, the better the answers.</subtitle>
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  <updated>2026-05-12T22:03:36Z</updated>
  <dc:date>2026-05-12T22:03:36Z</dc:date>
  <entry>
    <title>RE: Mobile home in the garden</title>
    <link rel="alternate" href="https://khub.net/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=34193083" />
    <author>
      <name>Nigel Hancock</name>
    </author>
    <id>https://khub.net/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=34193083</id>
    <updated>2017-06-30T13:46:23Z</updated>
    <published>2017-06-30T13:46:23Z</published>
    <summary type="html">It does look like they have questioned the curtilage of the property though, so you must be convinced that this would be sited within the established residential planning unit. &amp;nbsp;There could well be a material change of use if it is not.</summary>
    <dc:creator>Nigel Hancock</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2017-06-30T13:46:23Z</dc:date>
  </entry>
  <entry>
    <title>RE: Planning Guarantee and Refund of Planning Application Fee</title>
    <link rel="alternate" href="https://khub.net/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=33486571" />
    <author>
      <name>Nigel Hancock</name>
    </author>
    <id>https://khub.net/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=33486571</id>
    <updated>2017-05-26T08:11:12Z</updated>
    <published>2017-05-26T08:11:12Z</published>
    <summary type="html">Yes, I have also had 2 FOI requests for the same thing</summary>
    <dc:creator>Nigel Hancock</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2017-05-26T08:11:12Z</dc:date>
  </entry>
  <entry>
    <title>RE: Change of Use - multiple uses?</title>
    <link rel="alternate" href="https://khub.net/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=29630186" />
    <author>
      <name>Nigel Hancock</name>
    </author>
    <id>https://khub.net/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=29630186</id>
    <updated>2016-12-14T13:26:31Z</updated>
    <published>2016-12-14T13:26:31Z</published>
    <summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;As far as I know this provision is contained within the 2015 General&amp;nbsp;Permitted Development Order&amp;nbsp;which states in Class V of Part 3 (Changes of use):&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Class V – changes of use permitted under a permission granted on an application&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Permitted development&lt;br /&gt;
V. Development consisting of a change of use of a building or other land from a use permitted&amp;nbsp;by planning permission granted on an application, to another use which that permission would&amp;nbsp;have specifically authorised when it was granted.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Development not permitted&lt;br /&gt;
V.1 Development is not permitted by Class V if—&lt;br /&gt;
(a) the application for planning permission referred to was made before 5th December 1988;&lt;br /&gt;
(b) it would be carried out more than 10 years after the grant of planning permission;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;(c) the development would consist of a change of use of a building to use as betting office or&amp;nbsp;pay day loan shop; or&lt;br /&gt;
(d) it would result in the breach of any condition, limitation or specification contained in that&amp;nbsp;planning permission in relation to the use in question.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;To my mind this allows a permission to be granted for a range of uses but whatever the use is after 10 years following the grant of PP would&amp;nbsp;become&amp;nbsp;the lawful use and the permission would not authorise further material&amp;nbsp;changes because of clause (b).&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Is this what you used to use, it used to be Part 3 Class E in the GPDO 1995?&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;</summary>
    <dc:creator>Nigel Hancock</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2016-12-14T13:26:31Z</dc:date>
  </entry>
  <entry>
    <title>RE: Free Go's</title>
    <link rel="alternate" href="https://khub.net/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=28770081" />
    <author>
      <name>Nigel Hancock</name>
    </author>
    <id>https://khub.net/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=28770081</id>
    <updated>2016-11-04T07:19:12Z</updated>
    <published>2016-11-04T07:19:12Z</published>
    <summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Ok so reverse the scenario, would you allow them to add a house to the scheme if we thought that a 5 dwelling scheme worked better than a 4 dwelling scheme (which would have been identified at pre app). &amp;nbsp;And is this just a numbers game or a percentage game. &amp;nbsp;I.e 5 to 4 is 20% so if there was a 100 dwelling scheme could that be amended to 80 (or 120 if you go the other way)?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;And if a scheme for 4 dwellings was approved would&amp;nbsp;you allow a free go if they then submitted and application for 5?&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;</summary>
    <dc:creator>Nigel Hancock</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2016-11-04T07:19:12Z</dc:date>
  </entry>
  <entry>
    <title>Free Go's</title>
    <link rel="alternate" href="https://khub.net/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=28701694" />
    <author>
      <name>Nigel Hancock</name>
    </author>
    <id>https://khub.net/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=28701694</id>
    <updated>2016-11-03T09:13:01Z</updated>
    <published>2016-11-03T09:13:01Z</published>
    <summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Quick couple&amp;nbsp;of questions on a recent scenario.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Planning application submitted for 5 detached dwellings without entering into any pre application discsussions with the LPA. &amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Q1. Would you allow the application to be amended to 4 dwellings if you thought that 5 dwellings was unacceptable but 4 was ok?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Q2. If the application was refused at 5 dwellings would you allow a free go if it was resubmitted for 4 dwellings?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Thoughts welcomed&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;</summary>
    <dc:creator>Nigel Hancock</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2016-11-03T09:13:01Z</dc:date>
  </entry>
  <entry>
    <title>RE: Prior Notification Larger Home Extension</title>
    <link rel="alternate" href="https://khub.net/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=19752656" />
    <author>
      <name>Nigel Hancock</name>
    </author>
    <id>https://khub.net/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=19752656</id>
    <updated>2016-04-26T08:11:25Z</updated>
    <published>2016-04-26T08:11:25Z</published>
    <summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;It has always been my understanding that&amp;nbsp;if an extension physically attaches to another extension (or an outbuilding) then the two parts are considered as part of the whole development. &amp;nbsp;So if the larger house extension attaches to an existing outbuilding and the whole structure (including the outbuilding) exceeds the limitations of the larger house extension provision then it cannot be PD. &amp;nbsp;It may be however that it is still within the limitations and therefore could be.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;See page 21 and 27&amp;nbsp;of the Government's Technical Guidance for permitted development rights householders for a bit more of an explanation about how the whole develoment must be considered together as the resultant building.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/516238/160413_Householder_Technical_Guidance.pdf&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;</summary>
    <dc:creator>Nigel Hancock</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2016-04-26T08:11:25Z</dc:date>
  </entry>
  <entry>
    <title>RE: Planning notices</title>
    <link rel="alternate" href="https://khub.net/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=19256775" />
    <author>
      <name>Nigel Hancock</name>
    </author>
    <id>https://khub.net/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=19256775</id>
    <updated>2016-04-01T06:18:50Z</updated>
    <published>2016-04-01T06:18:50Z</published>
    <summary type="html">My Officers always take a photo of the site notice that they have posted just so that we have a record of it if the need ever arises.&amp;nbsp;</summary>
    <dc:creator>Nigel Hancock</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2016-04-01T06:18:50Z</dc:date>
  </entry>
  <entry>
    <title>RE: Extending time limit for householder planning application</title>
    <link rel="alternate" href="https://khub.net/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=18868761" />
    <author>
      <name>Nigel Hancock</name>
    </author>
    <id>https://khub.net/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=18868761</id>
    <updated>2016-03-09T06:34:03Z</updated>
    <published>2016-03-09T06:34:03Z</published>
    <summary type="html">Or implement the permission, its suprising what little work needs to be done to preserve the permission indefinately&amp;nbsp;</summary>
    <dc:creator>Nigel Hancock</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2016-03-09T06:34:03Z</dc:date>
  </entry>
  <entry>
    <title>RE: Measuring Tools For PDF Plans</title>
    <link rel="alternate" href="https://khub.net/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=15815613" />
    <author>
      <name>Nigel Hancock</name>
    </author>
    <id>https://khub.net/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=15815613</id>
    <updated>2015-08-03T09:41:38Z</updated>
    <published>2015-08-03T09:41:38Z</published>
    <summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Hi Darren,&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;We have also been using&amp;nbsp;PDF Exchange Viewer for some time as it really is a good piece of free software. &amp;nbsp;We have been fully electronic for a few years now and if we need to measure an angle, we copy and paste the part of the drawing that we want to look at into MS Word and then draw a line. You can then use the options to set the angle of the line to whatever you want to check building positioning or vetical alignments. &amp;nbsp;Its a bit of a faff but for the odd time we need to do it, it works and doesnt need any additional software installed.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Hope this helps&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Nigel&lt;/p&gt;</summary>
    <dc:creator>Nigel Hancock</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2015-08-03T09:41:38Z</dc:date>
  </entry>
  <entry>
    <title>RE: Which is my principal elevation?</title>
    <link rel="alternate" href="https://khub.net/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=10667975" />
    <author>
      <name>Nigel Hancock</name>
    </author>
    <id>https://khub.net/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=10667975</id>
    <updated>2015-01-30T07:47:44Z</updated>
    <published>2015-01-30T07:47:44Z</published>
    <summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;
	Unfortunately its not always as simple as that.&amp;nbsp; This is the wording fromt the technical guidance&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
	&lt;em&gt;In most cases, the principal elevation will be that part of the house which fronts (directly or at an angle) the main highway serving the house (the main highway will be the one that sets the postcode for the house concerned). It will usually contain the main architectural features such as main bay windows or a porch serving the main&lt;br /&gt;
	entrance to the house. Usually, but not exclusively, the principal elevation will be what is understood to be the front of the house.&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
	&lt;em&gt;There will only be one principal elevation on a house. Where there are two elevations which may have the character of a principal elevation (for example, on a corner plot), a view will need to be taken as to which of these forms the principal elevation. Note, however, that in such cases the second elevation will also be&amp;nbsp;subject to the restrictions under Class A if it is a side elevation and fronts a highway.&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
	In your case,&amp;nbsp;I&amp;nbsp; am guessing&amp;nbsp;that&amp;nbsp;the main architectural features do not face the road (not all properties face the road) and without seeing the elevations of the house itself it is difficult to form an opinion.&amp;nbsp; But just&amp;nbsp;try to apply some common sense.&amp;nbsp; Does the elevation that faces the road look like the back of the house?&amp;nbsp; Does the elevation that faces away from the road look like the front of the house?&amp;nbsp; What would most people say if asked?&amp;nbsp; Planning Officers arent trained to define a 'Principal Elevation', that was something invented by the Government when it introduced all this new permitted development, its generally a matter of judgement.&amp;nbsp; The fact that the door is on the back doesnt in itself make that the principal elevation.&amp;nbsp; If you want some more speficic advice I would suggest attaching some photos of the house here and see what kind of response you get.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
	Even if you&amp;nbsp;got a response from your local council it is only likely to&amp;nbsp;be officer advice and not binding on any future decision. The only way to get a definitive answer would be to submit a Lawful Development Certificate, but then why use a nutcracker when a sledgehammer is available :-)&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
	Hope this helps&lt;/p&gt;</summary>
    <dc:creator>Nigel Hancock</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2015-01-30T07:47:44Z</dc:date>
  </entry>
  <entry>
    <title>RE: Dropped kerbs and planning permission</title>
    <link rel="alternate" href="https://khub.net/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=10573825" />
    <author>
      <name>Nigel Hancock</name>
    </author>
    <id>https://khub.net/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=10573825</id>
    <updated>2015-01-20T15:24:40Z</updated>
    <published>2015-01-20T15:24:40Z</published>
    <summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;
	Whilst this isn't a definitive answer&amp;nbsp;the Planning Portal includes it within its list of items that would constitute a householder application when looking at the fee requirements:&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
	&lt;span class="radio"&gt;&lt;input checked="checked" id="primaryPermissionType_PCT1" name="primaryPermissionType" tabindex="1" type="radio" value="PCT1" /&gt; &lt;label for="primaryPermissionType_PCT1"&gt;&lt;!-- CMS start. Key = consent.prim.house.label--&gt;Householder planning permission&lt;!-- CMS end. Key = consent.prim.house.label--&gt;&lt;/label&gt; &lt;/span&gt;&lt;!-- CMS start. Key = consent.prim.house.description--&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
	- includes garages, outbuildings, dormer windows, garden walls or &lt;em&gt;new/altered access to the residence &lt;/em&gt;(excludes flats)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
	&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;</summary>
    <dc:creator>Nigel Hancock</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2015-01-20T15:24:40Z</dc:date>
  </entry>
  <entry>
    <title>Permission or not?</title>
    <link rel="alternate" href="https://khub.net/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=6237132" />
    <author>
      <name>Nigel Hancock</name>
    </author>
    <id>https://khub.net/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=6237132</id>
    <updated>2014-05-28T14:41:28Z</updated>
    <published>2014-05-28T14:41:28Z</published>
    <summary type="html">&lt;p&gt; I think you will also have to consider if it is a building operation or use of the land. &amp;nbsp;I.E. is the land in question being used to site the container, or is the siting of the container a building operation in terms of its degree of permanance etc.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; &lt;span style="font-size: 1em; line-height: 16.799999237060547px;"&gt;If it was the use of the land, then you wouldn't need the elevations, but the description should have been clear that a change of use of land was being applied for in addtion to the other operational development. If it's a building operation, it's up to the LPA to consider if it is necessary to submit elevations as its not a national requirement for validation purposes.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</summary>
    <dc:creator>Nigel Hancock</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2014-05-28T14:41:28Z</dc:date>
  </entry>
  <entry>
    <title>Permitted Development</title>
    <link rel="alternate" href="https://khub.net/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=6236595" />
    <author>
      <name>Nigel Hancock</name>
    </author>
    <id>https://khub.net/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=6236595</id>
    <updated>2013-09-27T09:59:29Z</updated>
    <published>2013-09-27T09:58:38Z</published>
    <summary type="html">&lt;p&gt; John, where does it say that Class J restricts the change of use to a single dwelling house?&lt;/p&gt;</summary>
    <dc:creator>Nigel Hancock</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2013-09-27T09:58:38Z</dc:date>
  </entry>
  <entry>
    <title>Re: Minor modifications to existing approved schemes</title>
    <link rel="alternate" href="https://khub.net/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=6230662" />
    <author>
      <name>Nigel Hancock</name>
    </author>
    <id>https://khub.net/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=6230662</id>
    <updated>2009-10-22T08:24:34Z</updated>
    <published>2009-10-22T08:24:34Z</published>
    <summary type="html">Where in the fee regs or circular does it say that there is a free go following permission? The circular says 'Revised applications following withdrawal. refusal, or non-determination (the free go). I believe that this is regulation 8. Paragraph 91 then talks about revised applications following permission (regulation 7) but this relates to varying a permission by having a planning condition discharged or modified (section 73). I can't find anywhere which states that there is a free go following permsion other than by a section 73 application.</summary>
    <dc:creator>Nigel Hancock</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2009-10-22T08:24:34Z</dc:date>
  </entry>
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