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  <title>Planning Advisory Service (PAS)</title>
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  <subtitle>Welcome to the Planning Advisory Service discussion forum. You're joining over 1300 planning people who come together to ask questions, learn from each other and to network. We operate separate forums to make it easier to ask and answer questions.

Most people here are planning professionals, but anyone is welcome to contribute. Remember that the better your question, the better the answers.</subtitle>
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  <updated>2026-07-27T05:51:49Z</updated>
  <dc:date>2026-07-27T05:51:49Z</dc:date>
  <entry>
    <title>Minor errors within the 2014 amendments to the CIL Regulations 2010 ...</title>
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    <author>
      <name>Steve Speed The Planning Jungle website</name>
    </author>
    <id>https://khub.net/cy/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=6221450</id>
    <updated>2014-02-27T15:28:28Z</updated>
    <published>2014-02-27T15:28:28Z</published>
    <summary type="html">&lt;p&gt; Hi all,&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; Just to let you know that there appear to be a couple of minor errors within the new Statutory Instrument 2014 No. 385 (i.e. the 2014 amendments to the CIL Regulations 2010), which came into force on 24/02/2014:&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; Firstly, regulation 8(1) of SI 2014 No. 385&lt;span style="font-size: 1em; line-height: 16.799999237060547px;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;(&lt;/span&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2014/385/regulation/8/made" onclick="_gaq.push(['_trackEvent', 'Document Asset', 'Download', '']);" style="font-size: 1em; font-variant: inherit;"&gt;link&lt;/a&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 1em; line-height: 16.799999237060547px;"&gt;) refers to "regulation 58" of the CIL Regulations 2010 - it appears that the latter reference&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;instead should be "regulation &lt;strong&gt;58A&lt;/strong&gt;".&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; Secondly, regulation 9(3)(e) of SI 2014 No. 385 (&lt;a href="http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2014/385/regulation/9/made" onclick="_gaq.push(['_trackEvent', 'Document Asset', 'Download', '']);"&gt;link&lt;/a&gt;) refers to regulation 65 "paragraph (12)" of the CIL Regulations 2010 - in my opinion, the latter reference instead&amp;nbsp;&lt;span style="font-size: 1em; line-height: 16.799999237060547px;"&gt;should be "paragraph (12)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;strong style="font-size: 1em; line-height: 16.799999237060547px;"&gt;(b)&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 1em; line-height: 16.799999237060547px;"&gt;", to ensure that it doesn't also apply to the phrase "planning permission" within paragraph (12)(c).&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; For reference, there were also a couple of other insignificant errors - e.g. a comma instead of a full-stop, a duplicate full-stop, etc.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; For info, I've just finished incorporating SI 2014 No. 385 into the "CIL Regulations 2010 (Consolidated)" document on my website, so those of you who are members will hopefully find it useful.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; Thanks,&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; Steve&lt;/p&gt;</summary>
    <dc:creator>Steve Speed The Planning Jungle website</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2014-02-27T15:28:28Z</dc:date>
  </entry>
  <entry>
    <title>Outline Permission - maximum number of units</title>
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    <author>
      <name>Steve Speed The Planning Jungle website</name>
    </author>
    <id>https://khub.net/cy/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=6236990</id>
    <updated>2014-02-14T10:29:38Z</updated>
    <published>2014-02-14T10:29:38Z</published>
    <summary type="html">&lt;p&gt; Hi all,&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; Although I don't deal with applications for outline planning permission, please note that the above article 4(3) of the DMPO 2010 was deleted by Statutory Instrument&amp;nbsp;2012 No. 3109 (&lt;a href="http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2012/3109/article/3/made" onclick="_gaq.push(['_trackEvent', 'Document Asset', 'Download', '']);"&gt;link&lt;/a&gt;).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; Unfortunately, although the main point of the DMPO 2010 was to provide a consolidated version of the GDPO 1995, it has subsequently been amended by (at least) 10 separate Statutory Instruments. &amp;nbsp;This means that the "as amended" version of the DMPO 2010 that actually applies in law today is now very different to the original version that's on the government website.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; Thanks,&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; Steve&lt;/p&gt;</summary>
    <dc:creator>Steve Speed The Planning Jungle website</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2014-02-14T10:29:38Z</dc:date>
  </entry>
  <entry>
    <title>Permitted Development Rights for C4 HMOs</title>
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    <author>
      <name>Steve Speed The Planning Jungle website</name>
    </author>
    <id>https://khub.net/cy/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=6236961</id>
    <updated>2014-02-06T10:50:24Z</updated>
    <published>2014-02-06T10:50:24Z</published>
    <summary type="html">&lt;p&gt; [IMPORTANT UPDATE]&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; &lt;span style="font-size: 1em; line-height: 16.799999237060547px;"&gt;Hi all,&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; With regards to this issue of whether an HMO (i.e. a C4 "small HMO" or a sui generis "large HMO") benefits from Part 1 of the GPDO, please note that there have been the following significant changes over the last few months.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; Firstly, the Planning Inspectorate has recently produced the following document that advises its Inspectors that an HMO can benefit from Part 1 of the GPDO:&lt;/p&gt; &lt;ul&gt; &lt;li&gt; Advice produced by the Planning Inspectorate for use by its Inspectors – 15 January 2014 - Houses in Multiple Occupation (HMOs) and Permitted Development Rights (&lt;a href="http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/pins/advice_for_inspectors/hmo_2014.pdf" onclick="_gaq.push(['_trackEvent', 'Document Asset', 'Download', '']);"&gt;link&lt;/a&gt;).&lt;/li&gt; &lt;/ul&gt; &lt;p&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; &lt;span style="font-size: 1em; line-height: 16.799999237060547px;"&gt;Secondly, the balance of appeal decisions has significantly changed over the last few months. &amp;nbsp;For example, in my above post (dated November 2013), I stated that there had been 3 appeal decisions that concluded that a C4 HMO does &lt;em&gt;not &lt;/em&gt;benefit from Part 1 of the GPDO versus 1 appeal decision that concluded that a C4 HMO &lt;em&gt;does&lt;/em&gt; benefit from Part 1 of the GPDO. &amp;nbsp;However, since then, there have been 4 more appeal decisions (3 of which were determined after the publication of the above document), all of which have concluded that a C4 HMO &lt;em&gt;does &lt;/em&gt;benefit from Part 1 of the GPDO. &amp;nbsp;This means that the balance of appeal decisions has now changed from 3 vs 1 to 3 vs 5, and (as a result of the above document) is likely to continue in the latter direction.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; Thanks,&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; Steve&lt;/p&gt;</summary>
    <dc:creator>Steve Speed The Planning Jungle website</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2014-02-06T10:50:24Z</dc:date>
  </entry>
  <entry>
    <title>Fee - prior approval</title>
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    <author>
      <name>Steve Speed The Planning Jungle website</name>
    </author>
    <id>https://khub.net/cy/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=6236933</id>
    <updated>2014-01-17T16:39:55Z</updated>
    <published>2014-01-17T16:35:43Z</published>
    <summary type="html">&lt;p&gt; Hi Michelle,&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; &lt;span style="font-size: 1em; line-height: 16px;"&gt;As Chris says, the fee is &lt;strong&gt;£80&lt;/strong&gt;.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; &lt;span style="font-size: 1em; line-height: 16px;"&gt;For info, the above fee was introduced by the following&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; line-height: 20px;"&gt;Statutory Instrument, which&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;sets out that (from 01/10/2013) a fee of £80 is payable for an application under any Part of the GPDO 1995 relating to development that involves making a material change of use. &amp;nbsp;In practice, this corresponds to an application for prior approval under Schedule 2 Part 3 of the GPDO 1995.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; &lt;a href="http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/2153/regulation/6/made" onclick="_gaq.push(['_trackEvent', 'Document Asset', 'Download', '']);"&gt;SI 2013 No. 2153 – The Town and Country Planning (Fees for Applications, Deemed Applications, Requests and Site Visits) (England) (Amendment) Regulations 2013&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; &lt;span style="font-size: 1em; line-height: 16px;"&gt;However, the above fee is &lt;strong&gt;not &lt;/strong&gt;payable where the same applicant on the same day makes an application for planning permission (for which a fee is payable) on a site that includes buildings or land that are the subject of the application for prior approval.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; Thanks,&lt;br /&gt; Steve&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; [Edited because the link to the SI was changing the word order of the paragraph].&lt;/p&gt;</summary>
    <dc:creator>Steve Speed The Planning Jungle website</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2014-01-17T16:35:43Z</dc:date>
  </entry>
  <entry>
    <title>20cm setback rule</title>
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    <author>
      <name>Steve Speed The Planning Jungle website</name>
    </author>
    <id>https://khub.net/cy/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=6236919</id>
    <updated>2014-01-09T14:44:02Z</updated>
    <published>2014-01-09T14:44:02Z</published>
    <summary type="html">&lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; Hi Nicholas,&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; The appeal decisions to which I referred can be found within the &lt;strong&gt;"B.2(b)"&lt;/strong&gt; topic of the following document:&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &lt;a href="http://planningjungle.com/householder-permitted-development/part-1-of-the-gpdo-appeal-decision-summaries" onclick="_gaq.push(['_trackEvent', 'Document Asset', 'Download', '']);"&gt;http://planningjungle.com/householder-permitted-development/part-1-of-the-gpdo-appeal-decision-summaries&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; I'm afraid that I'm unable to repost the references for these appeal decisions here, as they're only available to members. &amp;nbsp;However, for info, the conclusions of these appeal decisions can be summarised as follows:&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &lt;strong&gt;PITCHED ROOF:&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; In the case where a property has an original rear projection with a &lt;strong&gt;pitched roof &lt;/strong&gt;with eaves at a lower level than the eaves of the main rear roof, appeal decisions have concluded the following:&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; - &lt;strong&gt;15 appeal decisions &lt;/strong&gt;have concluded that B.2(b) &lt;strong&gt;would &lt;/strong&gt;allow a roof extension that extends from the main rear roof onto the side roof of the original rear projection, even though the roof extension would &lt;em&gt;(at least partly) &lt;/em&gt;extend across the line of the original rear eaves.&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; - Furthermore, &lt;strong&gt;5 of the above appeal decisions &lt;/strong&gt;dealt with the situation where the ridge-line of the original rear projection is at a (slightly) lower level than the eaves of the main rear roof, which means that they concluded that B.2(b) &lt;strong&gt;would &lt;/strong&gt;still allow such a roof extension even if it would &lt;em&gt;fully &lt;/em&gt;extend across the line of the original rear eaves.&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; - However, in constrast, &lt;strong&gt;2 appeal decision &lt;/strong&gt;have concluded that B.2(b) would &lt;strong&gt;NOT &lt;/strong&gt;allow the above type of roof extension - one of these appeal decisions dealt with the first of the above situations, and the other dealt with the second of the above situations.&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &lt;strong&gt;FLAT ROOF:&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; In the case where a property has an original rear projection with a &lt;strong&gt;flat roof &lt;/strong&gt;at a (slightly) lower level than the eaves of the main rear roof, appeal decisions have concluded the following:&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; - &lt;strong&gt;2 appeal decisions &lt;/strong&gt;have concluded that B.2(b) &lt;strong&gt;would &lt;/strong&gt;allow a roof extension that extends from the main rear roof onto the flat roof of the original rear projection, even though the roof extension would &lt;em&gt;fully &lt;/em&gt;extend across the line of the original rear eaves.&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; - However, in constrast, &lt;strong&gt;2 appeal decisions &lt;/strong&gt;have concluded that B.2(b) would &lt;strong&gt;NOT &lt;/strong&gt;allow the above type of roof extension.&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; Please note that, as indicated in my post above, all of the above appeals relate to the situation where the roof of the original rear projection at a &lt;em&gt;similar &lt;/em&gt;level to the main roof. &amp;nbsp;In my opinion, where you have an existing secondary roof that's &lt;em&gt;significantly &lt;/em&gt;lower than the main roof, it's debatable whether an extension to such a lower roof should be assessed against Class A or Class B.&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; Thanks,&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; Steve&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
    <dc:creator>Steve Speed The Planning Jungle website</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2014-01-09T14:44:02Z</dc:date>
  </entry>
  <entry>
    <title>Permitted Development Rights for C4 HMOs</title>
    <link rel="alternate" href="https://khub.net/cy/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=6236833" />
    <author>
      <name>Steve Speed The Planning Jungle website</name>
    </author>
    <id>https://khub.net/cy/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=6236833</id>
    <updated>2013-11-20T10:11:19Z</updated>
    <published>2013-11-20T10:11:19Z</published>
    <summary type="html">&lt;div&gt; Hi John,&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; So far I've seen 3 appeal decisions that have concluded that a C4 house in multiple occupation (i.e. a “small HMO”) does &lt;strong&gt;not &lt;/strong&gt;benefit from Part 1 of the GPDO, and 1 appeal decision that has concluded that a C4 HMO &lt;strong&gt;does &lt;/strong&gt;benefit from Part 1 of the GPDO.&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; Here's one of the first 3 appeal decisions:&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; ---------------------------------------------------&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; Reference: APP/G5750/C/12/2179140&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; Date: 01/03/2013&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; Quote: &lt;em&gt;"The Council submitted that it would be unlikely that the terms of the GPDO were intended to grant permitted development rights to some class C4 buildings and not others. This is a view that has not yet, as far as I am aware, been tested through the courts. &lt;strong&gt;However, taking account of all the above points, it seems likely that permitted development rights for extensions to single dwellings do not extend to class C4 HMOs.&lt;/strong&gt; Therefore, there are no permitted development rights that would have allowed the construction of the extension while the building was in use as any type of HMO."&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; Link: &lt;a href="http://www.pcs.planningportal.gov.uk/pcsportal/ViewCase.asp?caseid=2179140&amp;amp;coid=2113540" onclick="_gaq.push(['_trackEvent', 'Document Asset', 'Download', '']);"&gt;http://www.pcs.planningportal.gov.uk/pcsportal/ViewCase.asp?caseid=2179140&amp;amp;coid=2113540&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; ---------------------------------------------------&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; And here's the contrary appeal decision:&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; ---------------------------------------------------&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; Reference: APP/M5450/X/12/2189103&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; Date: 11/11/2013&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; Quote: &lt;em&gt;"I consider that HMOs, whether occupied by up to six residents, and hence falling within Class C4 of the Town and Country Planning (Use Classes) Order 1987 (as amended) (the UCO), or more than six residents, and hence a sui generis use, are dwellinghouses for the purposes of the GPDO, provided that they are not expressly excluded from that definition. In other words, a HMO is simply a type of dwellinghouse use. It is not a condition of qualifying for GPDO PD rights that a “dwellinghouse” is a “dwellinghouse” of a particular type described in the UCO. &lt;strong&gt;Since the appeal building is not excluded from the definition of ‘dwellinghouse’ by virtue of containing one or more flats, I am satisfied that it benefits from the PD rights granted by Part 1 of Schedule 2 to the GPDO.&lt;/strong&gt;"&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; Link:&amp;nbsp;&lt;a href="http://www.pcs.planningportal.gov.uk/pcsportal/ViewCase.asp?caseid=2189103&amp;amp;coid=2123562" onclick="_gaq.push(['_trackEvent', 'Document Asset', 'Download', '']);"&gt;http://www.pcs.planningportal.gov.uk/pcsportal/ViewCase.asp?caseid=2189103&amp;amp;coid=2123562&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; ---------------------------------------------------&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; Thanks,&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; Steve&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
    <dc:creator>Steve Speed The Planning Jungle website</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2013-11-20T10:11:19Z</dc:date>
  </entry>
  <entry>
    <title>Permitted Development</title>
    <link rel="alternate" href="https://khub.net/cy/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=6236791" />
    <author>
      <name>Steve Speed The Planning Jungle website</name>
    </author>
    <id>https://khub.net/cy/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=6236791</id>
    <updated>2013-11-05T18:27:36Z</updated>
    <published>2013-11-05T18:27:36Z</published>
    <summary type="html">&lt;div&gt; Hi all,&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; Further to my posts above, I’ve received a reply from DCLG which states that, although only the Courts can ultimately give a definitive interpretation of legislation, the &lt;em&gt;intention &lt;/em&gt;of Part 3 Class J was to allow an office to be converted into (multiple) &lt;strong&gt;flats&lt;/strong&gt; (i.e. as well as the option of it being converted into a single house).&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; Furthermore, the reply stated that, other than the guidance on the NPPG beta site (which will take into account comments received on the site), no further guidance is planned in relation to the changes to the GPDO that were introduced in May 2013.&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; Thanks,&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; Steve&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
    <dc:creator>Steve Speed The Planning Jungle website</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2013-11-05T18:27:36Z</dc:date>
  </entry>
  <entry>
    <title>Use Classes Order 1987 - Flowchart that illustrates the interactions ...</title>
    <link rel="alternate" href="https://khub.net/cy/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=6236721" />
    <author>
      <name>Steve Speed The Planning Jungle website</name>
    </author>
    <id>https://khub.net/cy/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=6236721</id>
    <updated>2013-10-23T13:44:34Z</updated>
    <published>2013-10-23T13:44:34Z</published>
    <summary type="html">&lt;div&gt; Hi all,&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; In case anyone's interested, I've created a &lt;strong&gt;flowchart &lt;/strong&gt;that illustrates the interactions between the Use Classes (i.e. the interactions due to the permitted changes of use and temporary uses from Parts 3 and 4 of the GPDO 1995). &amp;nbsp;I'm not sure whether this type of flowchart has been done before, but even being familiar with the legislation, it was quite surprising how complicated such a flowchart turns out to be. &amp;nbsp;Of course, if the currently proposed additional PD rights for A1, A2, B1, C1, C2, C2A, D2, and agricultural properties come into force, then this type of flowchart would become even more complicated!&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; For info, the flowchart is available at the end of the document on the following webpage, which is one of the free documents on the website:&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &lt;a href="http://planningjungle.com/consolidated-versions-of-legislation/use-classes-order-1987-quick-reference-guide" onclick="_gaq.push(['_trackEvent', 'Document Asset', 'Download', '']);"&gt;http://planningjungle.com/consolidated-versions-of-legislation/use-classes-order-1987-quick-reference-guide&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; Thanks,&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; Steve&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
    <dc:creator>Steve Speed The Planning Jungle website</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2013-10-23T13:44:34Z</dc:date>
  </entry>
  <entry>
    <title>Permitted Development</title>
    <link rel="alternate" href="https://khub.net/cy/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=6236717" />
    <author>
      <name>Steve Speed The Planning Jungle website</name>
    </author>
    <id>https://khub.net/cy/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=6236717</id>
    <updated>2013-10-21T09:54:04Z</updated>
    <published>2013-10-21T09:54:04Z</published>
    <summary type="html">&lt;div&gt; Hi John,&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; Thanks very much for your reply. &amp;nbsp;As you say, the legislation puts LPAs in a very difficult position. &amp;nbsp;Unfortunately, it appears to be very common nowadays for central government to release unclear legislation without (decent) guidance, which then means that every LPA has to work out its own set of interpretations. &amp;nbsp;It strikes me as a very inefficient system, because whatever money is saved when central government chooses not to produce guidance, is then spent several hundred times over when every LPA has to work out its own set of interpretations. &amp;nbsp;And, of course, it's also very inefficient for planning consultants and developers to have to deal with multiple LPAs each (potentially) applying a different set of interpretations.&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; One of the key issues that you've highlighted is the question of how an LPA should deal with an application for prior approval if it believes that the works wouldn't fall within that particular Class of permitted development rights. &amp;nbsp;This is an issue that I've discussed within the "Part 1 of the GPDO - 2013 Amendments - Guide" document on my website, as this same situation arises when an LPA receives an application for prior approval under Part 1 Class A condition A.4 and it appears to the LPA (without necessarily being 100% clear) that the works wouldn't fall within Part 1 Class A. &amp;nbsp;For example, this situation arises for such an application when the LPA suspects that the use of the property might fall within Use Class C4, etc.&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; When I first looked into the above issue, I assumed that a clear answer would be available, particularly as this same issue has existed for many years for applications under Parts 6, 7, 24, and 31 of the GPDO. &amp;nbsp;However, out of the 7 appeal decisions that I found that dealt with this issue, although 5 supported the approach that the LPA should process the application regardless (albeit perhaps with the use of informatives, etc), the other 2 supported the opposite approach that the LPA should invalidate the application. &amp;nbsp;I guess nothing better demonstrates that a piece of legislation is unclear and lacks (decent) guidance than when government Inspectors are unable to interpret it consistently. &amp;nbsp;What's most frustrating is that even though the above issue has existed for many years for applications under Parts 6, 7, 24, and 31 of the GPDO, when central government recently released the new legislation for Parts 1 and 3 of the GPDO it completely missed the opportunity to clarify this issue.&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; Anyway, in case it helps, I've just sent an email to DCLG to ask them whether Part 3 Class J would only allow an office to be converted into a single house, or whether it would also allow an office to be converted into multiple flats.&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; Thanks,&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; Steve&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
    <dc:creator>Steve Speed The Planning Jungle website</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2013-10-21T09:54:04Z</dc:date>
  </entry>
  <entry>
    <title>Permitted Development</title>
    <link rel="alternate" href="https://khub.net/cy/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=6236711" />
    <author>
      <name>Steve Speed The Planning Jungle website</name>
    </author>
    <id>https://khub.net/cy/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=6236711</id>
    <updated>2013-10-19T12:12:57Z</updated>
    <published>2013-10-19T12:12:57Z</published>
    <summary type="html">&lt;div&gt; Hi John,&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; In my opinion, the approach taken by the LPA in this particular case (i.e. to decide that the application for prior approval is "invalid") is a relatively risky approach. &amp;nbsp;In short, if the LPA's interpretation of the legislation is incorrect (which in my opinion is the case), then after 8 weeks the developer will be able to lawfully start works, and the LPA would have lost its opportunity to assess the transport impacts, contamination risks, and flooding risks, of the proposed development.&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; As you say, from a procedural point of view the developer has relatively limited options, other than (say) waiting 8 weeks, then starting works, then receiving an enforcement notice, and then appealing the enforcement notice. &amp;nbsp;Alternatively, if at some point in the future the government issues guidance that Part 3 Class J allows an office to be converted into multiple flats, then the developer would be able to start works with the knowledge that the combination of the government guidance plus the "invalid" letter from the LPA demonstrates that they submitted a valid application for prior approval, for which the LPA failed to issue a decision within 8 weeks.&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; A good example of the risks for an LPA if it decides that an application for prior approval is "invalid" is provided by the Court of Appeal judgement &lt;em&gt;"Murrell &amp;amp; Anor v Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government &amp;amp; Anor [2010] EWCA Civ 1367"&lt;/em&gt;, which is available on the following webpage of the Bailii website:&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &lt;a href="http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2010/1367.html" onclick="_gaq.push(['_trackEvent', 'Document Asset', 'Download', '']);"&gt;http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2010/1367.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; In the above case, the developer submitted an application for prior approval (under Part 6 of the GPDO) on 01/12/2008, which the LPA then decided was invalid for several reasons, including the fact that the developer had not used the standard application form provided by the government.&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; The developer then submitted this additional information (which was received by the LPA on 09/12/2008), and the LPA then issued a decision on 31/12/2008 stating that prior approval was required and that such approval was refused. &amp;nbsp;It should be noted that this decision date was less than 28 days after the date that the additional information was submitted, but more than 28 days after the date that the application (without the additional information) was submitted.&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; The Court of Appeal concluded that the information received by the LPA on 01/12/2008 complied with the requirements of the GPDO and was a valid application, and that the GPDO does not require any of the additional information requested by the LPA. This meant that the 28 day period started on 01/12/2008 and expired on 28/12/2008. As such, the LPA failed to issue a decision within the 28 day period, and therefore permission for the development accrued under the GPDO.&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; Although the questions on this forum about whether Part 3 Class J allows an office to be converted into multiple flats have received relatively few responses (and a fairly mixed response), it does appear to be clear that a significant number of LPAs have taken the interpretation that Part 3 Class J does allow this. &amp;nbsp;For example, the following article on the Planning Resource website contains a lot of references to applications to convert offices into multiple flats, without any references to LPAs deciding that the legislation wouldn't allow this:&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &lt;a href="http://www.planningresource.co.uk/article/1210440/office-politics" onclick="_gaq.push(['_trackEvent', 'Document Asset', 'Download', '']);"&gt;http://www.planningresource.co.uk/article/1210440/office-politics&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; For example, within the above article, one agent states that "applicants are looking to convert smaller properties, typically with five units, though with some up to 20", and the head of planning at an LPA states that the offices subject of these applications "are typically on the edge of town centres and usually propose ten to 12 flats". &amp;nbsp;There are also references to applications to convert very large office blocks into multiple flats, including the following:&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; - An application to convert an office into &lt;strong&gt;120 flats&lt;/strong&gt;, for which Birmingham City Council issued a decision stating that prior approval was not required:&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &lt;a href="http://eplanning.birmingham.gov.uk/Northgate/PlanningExplorer/Generic/StdDetails.aspx?PT=Planning%20Applications%20On-Line&amp;amp;TYPE=PL/PlanningPK.xml&amp;amp;PARAM0=594926&amp;amp;XSLT=/Northgate/PlanningExplorer/SiteFiles/Skins/Birmingham/xslt/PL/PLDetails.xslt&amp;amp;FT=Planning%20Application%20Details&amp;amp;PUBLIC=Y&amp;amp;XMLSIDE=/Northgate/PlanningExplorer/SiteFiles/Skins/Birmingham/Menus/PL.xml&amp;amp;DAURI=PLANNING" onclick="_gaq.push(['_trackEvent', 'Document Asset', 'Download', '']);"&gt;http://eplanning.birmingham.gov.uk/Northgate/PlanningExplorer/Generic/StdDetails.aspx?PT=Planning%20Applications%20On-Line&amp;amp;TYPE=PL/PlanningPK.xml&amp;amp;PARAM0=594926&amp;amp;XSLT=/Northgate/PlanningExplorer/SiteFiles/Skins/Birmingham/xslt/PL/PLDetails.xslt&amp;amp;FT=Planning%20Application%20Details&amp;amp;PUBLIC=Y&amp;amp;XMLSIDE=/Northgate/PlanningExplorer/SiteFiles/Skins/Birmingham/Menus/PL.xml&amp;amp;DAURI=PLANNING&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; [If necessary, search for the application reference 2013/04621/PA].&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; - An application to convert an office into &lt;strong&gt;139 flats&lt;/strong&gt;, for which the London Borough of Hounslow issued a decision stating that prior approval was not required:&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &lt;a href="http://planning.hounslow.gov.uk/Planning_CaseNo.aspx?strCASENO=PA/2013/2769" onclick="_gaq.push(['_trackEvent', 'Document Asset', 'Download', '']);"&gt;http://planning.hounslow.gov.uk/Planning_CaseNo.aspx?strCASENO=PA/2013/2769&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; [If necessary, search for the application reference PA/2013/2769 or 00996/50/PA1].&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; In addition, I would also question the practicality of the interpretation (which has been mentioned above) that Part 3 Class J allows an office to be converted into multiple flats, BUT that each flat would need to be the subject of a SEPARATE application for prior approval. &amp;nbsp;Such an interpretation would imply that, in the second of the above examples, the LPA should have required the developer to submit a total of 139 separate applications (!), each of which would have required a separate application number, a separate set of paperwork, a separate decision notice, etc. &amp;nbsp;In my opinion, if it's accepted that Part 3 Class J allows an office to be converted into multiple flats (which in my opinion is the case), then the only practical way that LPAs can deal with these types of applications is to allow the multiple flats to be the subject of a single application.&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; Thanks,&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; Steve&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
    <dc:creator>Steve Speed The Planning Jungle website</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2013-10-19T12:12:57Z</dc:date>
  </entry>
  <entry>
    <title>Abolition of Conservation Area Consent</title>
    <link rel="alternate" href="https://khub.net/cy/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=6236651" />
    <author>
      <name>Steve Speed The Planning Jungle website</name>
    </author>
    <id>https://khub.net/cy/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=6236651</id>
    <updated>2013-10-04T16:58:23Z</updated>
    <published>2013-10-04T16:53:32Z</published>
    <summary type="html">&lt;div&gt; Thanks John, Richard :-)&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; To be honest, I don't know how the government expects anyone to be able to keep track of all of these changes. &amp;nbsp;As an example, suppose someone asks you the simple question "what is relevant demolition?". &amp;nbsp;To give the full answer, you need to follow &lt;strong&gt;ALL &lt;/strong&gt;of the following steps:&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; 1) Firstly, you need to look at section 196D of the TCPA 1990. &amp;nbsp;However, this section hasn't yet been added to the version of the TCPA 1990 on the government website "www.legislation.gov.uk", so you actually need to look at the following different Act.&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; 2) Secondly, you need to look at section 63 and Schedule 17 of the Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Act 2013, which inserted section 196D into the TCPA 1990. &amp;nbsp;The definition of "relevant demolition" within this Schedule contains a double negative by stating that it's the demolition of a building in a CA that's "not a building to which section 74 of the [LBCA Act 1990] does not apply by virtue of section 75 of that Act".&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; 3) Thirdly, you need to know that the above section and Schedule have come into force by finding the relevant Commencement Order (i.e. 2013 No. 2227 (C. 92)).&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; 4) Fourthly, you need to look at section 75 of the LBCA Act 1990. &amp;nbsp;This section contains a list of 4 exceptions (e.g. listed buildings, ecclesiastical buildings, etc), the last of which is "buildings in relation to which a direction under subsection (2) is for the time being in force".&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; 5) Fifthly, you need to know that paragraph 31 of Circular 01/01 constitutes the above type of "direction". &amp;nbsp;This paragraph sets out a list of 11 further exceptions.&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; 6) Sixthly, you also need to bear in mind the potential effect of paragraph 2(1) of "The Town and Country Planning (Demolition - Description of Buildings) Direction 1995", which excludes certain works from the definition of "development". &amp;nbsp;Unfortunately, this Direction is not available on any government website.&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; 7) Seventhly, when reading the above Direction, you also need to know that paragraphs 2(1)(a) to 2(1)(d) were found to be unlawful by the Court of Appeal in "R (SAVE Britain's Heritage) v Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government [2011] EWCA Civ 334".&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &lt;div&gt; Of course, if you then look at the version of the GPDO 1995 on the government website, it will give you the impression that "relevant demolition" is permitted development, unless you're also aware of SIs 2013 No. 2147 and 2013 No. 2435, which are just 2 out of a total of 32 SIs that amend the GPDO 1995!&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; Perhaps the best illustration of the farcical nature of the legislation regarding demolition is the "Demolition in Wonderland" article by Martin Goodall, which is available towards the end of the following page on his website:&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &lt;a href="http://planninglawblog.blogspot.co.uk/2011/03/eia-required-for-demolition.html" onclick="_gaq.push(['_trackEvent', 'Document Asset', 'Download', '']);"&gt;http://planninglawblog.blogspot.co.uk/2011/03/eia-required-for-demolition.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; Thanks,&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; Steve&lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;p&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;</summary>
    <dc:creator>Steve Speed The Planning Jungle website</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2013-10-04T16:53:32Z</dc:date>
  </entry>
  <entry>
    <title>Abolition of Conservation Area Consent</title>
    <link rel="alternate" href="https://khub.net/cy/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=6236641" />
    <author>
      <name>Steve Speed The Planning Jungle website</name>
    </author>
    <id>https://khub.net/cy/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=6236641</id>
    <updated>2013-10-04T14:44:33Z</updated>
    <published>2013-10-04T14:41:19Z</published>
    <summary type="html">&lt;p&gt; Hi John,&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; &lt;a href="http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/2147/contents/made" onclick="_gaq.push(['_trackEvent', 'Document Asset', 'Download', '']);"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 1em; line-height: 16px;"&gt;SI 2013 No. 2147&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 1em; line-height: 16px;"&gt;&amp;nbsp;amended Part 31 Class A (from 01/10/2013 onwards) so that “relevant demolition” (i.e. the demolition of an unlisted (etc) building in a CA) is no longer permitted development under Class A.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; &lt;span style="font-size: 1em; line-height: 16px;"&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/2435/contents/made" onclick="_gaq.push(['_trackEvent', 'Document Asset', 'Download', '']);"&gt;SI 2013 No. 2435&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 1em; line-height: 16px;"&gt;amended Part 31 Class B (from 01/10/2013 onwards)&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 1em; line-height: 16px;"&gt;so that “relevant demolition” (i.e. the demolition of an unlisted (etc) building in a CA) is no longer permitted development under Class B.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; &lt;span style="font-size: 1em; line-height: 16px;"&gt;As such, those types of demolition that previously required CAC (and were an offence without CAC) now require PP (and are an offence without PP) and are no longer permitted development under Part 31 of the GPDO 1995.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; &lt;span style="font-size: 1em; line-height: 16px;"&gt;For reference, the first of the above SIs was made on 29/08/2013, but contained a significant error because it didn't amend Part 31 Class B. &amp;nbsp;Subsequently, the second of the above SIs was made on 24/09/2013, which was just in time to correct this significant error before both of the above SIs came into force 01/10/2013.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; &lt;span style="font-size: 1em; line-height: 16px;"&gt;Thanks,&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; Steve&lt;/p&gt;</summary>
    <dc:creator>Steve Speed The Planning Jungle website</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2013-10-04T14:41:19Z</dc:date>
  </entry>
  <entry>
    <title>Time Extensions</title>
    <link rel="alternate" href="https://khub.net/cy/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=6236625" />
    <author>
      <name>Steve Speed The Planning Jungle website</name>
    </author>
    <id>https://khub.net/cy/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=6236625</id>
    <updated>2013-10-02T20:03:21Z</updated>
    <published>2013-10-02T20:03:21Z</published>
    <summary type="html">&lt;p&gt; Hi Andrew,&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; The following written statement by Nick Boles to Parliament on 03/09/2013 states that there will &lt;strong&gt;not&lt;/strong&gt; be a further extension to this measure:&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; &lt;em&gt;"In October 2012, a temporary measure introduced by the previous Government that enables applicants to seek more time to implement a planning permission was extended by 12 months. To encourage developments to start on site promptly once planning permission is granted, this temporary measure will not be extended further. This will complement the £1 billion Government are investing to get stalled sites moving again and help to reduce the 60,500 sites that are currently on hold."&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; Source:&amp;nbsp;&lt;a href="http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201314/cmhansrd/cm130903/wmstext/130903m0001.htm#130903m0001.htm_spmin1" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; line-height: 20px;"&gt;http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201314/cmhansrd/cm130903/wmstext/130903m0001.htm#130903m0001.htm_spmin1&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; Thanks,&lt;br /&gt; Steve&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;</summary>
    <dc:creator>Steve Speed The Planning Jungle website</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2013-10-02T20:03:21Z</dc:date>
  </entry>
  <entry>
    <title>Permitted Development</title>
    <link rel="alternate" href="https://khub.net/cy/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=6236623" />
    <author>
      <name>Steve Speed The Planning Jungle website</name>
    </author>
    <id>https://khub.net/cy/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=6236623</id>
    <updated>2013-10-02T19:57:23Z</updated>
    <published>2013-10-02T19:56:31Z</published>
    <summary type="html">&lt;p&gt; Hi all,&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; For info, the question of whether or not Part 3 Class J allows an office to be converted into (multiple) flats was also discussed in the following thread, although there were also different opinions:&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; &lt;a href="/group/planningadvisoryservicepas/forum/-/message_boards/message/10967535" onclick="_gaq.push(['_trackEvent', 'Document Asset', 'Download', '']);"&gt;https://khub.net/group/planningadvisoryservicepas/forum/-/message_boards/message/10967535&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; Thanks,&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; Steve&lt;/p&gt;</summary>
    <dc:creator>Steve Speed The Planning Jungle website</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2013-10-02T19:56:31Z</dc:date>
  </entry>
  <entry>
    <title>General Permitted Development Charges</title>
    <link rel="alternate" href="https://khub.net/cy/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=6236577" />
    <author>
      <name>Steve Speed The Planning Jungle website</name>
    </author>
    <id>https://khub.net/cy/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=6236577</id>
    <updated>2013-09-19T10:50:29Z</updated>
    <published>2013-09-19T10:50:29Z</published>
    <summary type="html">&lt;p&gt; Hi Katie,&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; For a prior approval application under Part 1 Class A (i.e. a larger home extension) there is currently no fee, and from 01/10/2013 onwards there will still be no fee.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; For a prior approval application under Part 3 (i.e. a change of use) there is currently no fee, and from 01/10/2013 onwards there will be a fee of £80.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; For reference, the latter is being introduced by the following part of the new Statutory Instrument 2013 No. 2153:&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; &lt;a href="http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/2153/regulation/6/made" onclick="_gaq.push(['_trackEvent', 'Document Asset', 'Download', '']);"&gt;http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/2153/regulation/6/made&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; Please also note that the new legislation includes the exception that&amp;nbsp;the above £80 fee will not be payable where the same applicant on the same day makes an application for planning permission (for which a fee is payable) on the same site&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; Thanks,&lt;br /&gt; Steve&lt;/p&gt;</summary>
    <dc:creator>Steve Speed The Planning Jungle website</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2013-09-19T10:50:29Z</dc:date>
  </entry>
  <entry>
    <title>20cm setback rule</title>
    <link rel="alternate" href="https://khub.net/cy/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=6236489" />
    <author>
      <name>Steve Speed The Planning Jungle website</name>
    </author>
    <id>https://khub.net/cy/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=6236489</id>
    <updated>2013-08-14T09:42:42Z</updated>
    <published>2013-08-14T09:39:54Z</published>
    <summary type="html">&lt;p&gt; Hi David,&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; If you do assess such works against Class B, then as you indicate it's difficult to know whether the new pitched roof would only be permitted development if it's set-back from the edge of the existing flat roof by 20cm, or whether it's the case that such a set-back would not be &lt;em&gt;"practicable"&lt;/em&gt;.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; Although the DCLG "Technical Guidance" document advises that the 20cm set-back should be &lt;em&gt;"measured along the roof slope"&lt;/em&gt;, in my opinion this is simply providing advice for the most common scenario of a proposed dormer on an existing pitched roof (for which the direction of the roof slope is the shortest distance), and doesn't necessarily mean that it's not possible to measure the 20cm set-back for an existing flat roof. &amp;nbsp;Indeed, the legislation itself uses the phrase &lt;em&gt;"not less than 20 centimetres from the eaves of the original roof"&lt;/em&gt;, which doesn't necessarily mean that this measurement will always have to be in the direction of a roof slope.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; In terms of appeal decisions, Inspectors have generally taken quite a restrictive interpretation of condition B.2(b), and have tended to reject arguments that the 20cm set-back would result in additional cost, or additional delay, or reduced internal floor space, etc. &amp;nbsp;The only examples of appeal decisions (that I'm aware of) where Inspectors have concluded that the 20cm set-back is &lt;em&gt;not&lt;/em&gt; practicable have tended to be where a property has an original rear projection at a similar level to the main rear roof (i.e. an "outrigger") for which it's proposed to erect an L-shaped rear dormer that would extend from the main rear roof onto the side roof of the original rear projection (and which would therefore extend across part of the original rear eaves without the 20cm set-back).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; In terms of your particular situation, the only appeal decision I've seen that involved the proposed replacement of a flat roof with a pitched roof was&amp;nbsp;&lt;a href="http://www.pcs.planningportal.gov.uk/pcsportal/ViewCase.asp?caseid=2179324&amp;amp;coid=2162732" onclick="_gaq.push(['_trackEvent', 'Document Asset', 'Download', '']);"&gt;APP/P2365/X/12/2179324&lt;/a&gt;, which was 1 of the 4 appeal decisions that I mentioned in my post above. &amp;nbsp;Indeed, it was the appeal decision that concluded that such works should be assessed against Class A &lt;strong&gt;and&lt;/strong&gt; Class B. &amp;nbsp;Unfortunately, this appeal decision doesn't help your assessment, because the Inspector dismissed it on the basis that the works would exceed the volume limit under limitation B.1(c), and didn't proceed to assess whether or not the works would have complied with condition B.2(b).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; Thanks,&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; Steve&lt;/p&gt;</summary>
    <dc:creator>Steve Speed The Planning Jungle website</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2013-08-14T09:39:54Z</dc:date>
  </entry>
  <entry>
    <title>20cm setback rule</title>
    <link rel="alternate" href="https://khub.net/cy/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=6236485" />
    <author>
      <name>Steve Speed The Planning Jungle website</name>
    </author>
    <id>https://khub.net/cy/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=6236485</id>
    <updated>2013-08-13T16:23:02Z</updated>
    <published>2013-08-13T16:20:31Z</published>
    <summary type="html">&lt;p&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; Hi David,&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; Where you have an existing secondary roof that's &lt;em&gt;significantly &lt;/em&gt;lower than the main roof (or the main roofs), then in my opinion it's debatable whether an extension to such a lower roof should be assessed against Class A or Class B.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; It's worth noting that if these types of works &lt;em&gt;are&lt;/em&gt; assessed against Class B, then this would result in a number of very significant loopholes. &amp;nbsp;For example, it's clear that two-storey side extensions (and first floor side extensions) are supposed to be prevented by the legislation. &amp;nbsp;And yet, for a typical two-storey property with an existing single storey side extension, if the view is taken that an extension to such a lower roof should be assessed against Class B (i.e. rather than Class A), then this would potentially allow a first floor side extension (e.g. in the form of a dormer set-back from the eaves, etc). &amp;nbsp;Similarly, for a typical two-storey property with an existing single storey rear extension, this would potentially allow a first floor rear extension up to the boundary with the adjoining property.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; Unfortunately, there haven't been many appeal decisions relating to this type of issue, and the ones there have been have mostly contradicted one-another. &amp;nbsp;For example, I've seen 2 appeal decisions that concluded that an extension to a lower roof should be assessed against &lt;strong&gt;Class A&lt;/strong&gt;, 1 appeal decision that concluded &lt;strong&gt;Class B&lt;/strong&gt;, and 1 appeal decision that concluded &lt;strong&gt;Class A and Class B&lt;/strong&gt;&amp;nbsp;... which doesn't help very much!&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p&gt; Thanks,&lt;br /&gt; Steve&lt;/p&gt;</summary>
    <dc:creator>Steve Speed The Planning Jungle website</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2013-08-13T16:20:31Z</dc:date>
  </entry>
  <entry>
    <title>Consultation on new permitted changes of use</title>
    <link rel="alternate" href="https://khub.net/cy/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=6236483" />
    <author>
      <name>Steve Speed The Planning Jungle website</name>
    </author>
    <id>https://khub.net/cy/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=6236483</id>
    <updated>2013-08-13T15:50:18Z</updated>
    <published>2013-08-13T15:48:11Z</published>
    <summary type="html">&lt;div&gt; Hi Peter,&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; Another issue is whether an agricultural building that changes to residential would be able to subsequently benefit from PD rights under Part 1 of the GPDO. &amp;nbsp;Indeed, the recent legislation for office to residential conversions doesn't restrict such subsequent rights, and the consultation document for these new proposals doesn't give any indication that such subsequent rights would be restricted.&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; This would mean that, unless the area is subject to an Article 4 direction restricting Part 1 of the GPDO, an agricultural building that changes to residential would be able to subsequently significantly increase its footprint. &amp;nbsp;Indeed, one of the more extreme examples would be (say) a detached agricultural building in the green belt (not article 1(5) land), with no elevation that fronts a highway, which would be able to subsequently erect some (or all) of the following:&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;ul&gt; &lt;li&gt; &amp;nbsp;A front extension with no meaningful restriction on its length (see appeal decision APP/Y3615/X/10/2142515 for an example of where a property would more than triple its original footprint).&lt;/li&gt; &lt;li&gt; A half-width side extension on each side (which would double its original footprint).&lt;/li&gt; &lt;li&gt; A rear extension with length 8m under the new prior approval process (which would be likely to more than double its original footprint).&lt;/li&gt; &lt;/ul&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; Indeed, the resulting footprint from all of the above extensions would be more than 5 times the original footprint! &amp;nbsp;And that's before the property then erects its 300m2 outbuilding (see appeal decision APP/H1515/X/10/2124574). &amp;nbsp;For more info about the above types of extreme examples, please see the "&lt;a href="http://planningjungle.com/householder-permitted-development/part-1-of-the-gpdo-the-10-worst-permitted-development-loopholes" onclick="_gaq.push(['_trackEvent', 'Document Asset', 'Download', '']);"&gt;Part 1 of the GPDO - The 10 Worst Permitted Development Loopholes&lt;/a&gt;" document.&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; Thanks,&lt;/div&gt; &lt;div&gt; Steve&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
    <dc:creator>Steve Speed The Planning Jungle website</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2013-08-13T15:48:11Z</dc:date>
  </entry>
  <entry>
    <title>Re: Consultation on new permitted changes of use</title>
    <link rel="alternate" href="https://khub.net/cy/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=6236435" />
    <author>
      <name>Steve Speed The Planning Jungle website</name>
    </author>
    <id>https://khub.net/cy/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=6236435</id>
    <updated>2013-08-07T17:43:41Z</updated>
    <published>2013-08-07T17:43:41Z</published>
    <summary type="html">Hi Jonathan, As you indicate, the government is basically using the GPDO as a tool to force through significant changes in national policy. The above approach is something that I strongly dislike. Firstly, the GPDO was always meant to be a tool to allow minor and uncontentious development, not a tool to force through significant changes in national policy. Secondly, it strikes me that the government, after the negative reaction to the draft NPPF (e.g. the campaign in the Daily Telegraph, etc), has taken the view that they are more likely to be able to achieve their aims without significant public and media reaction if they do so via amendments to the GPDO, rather than via the NPPF. As an example, consider how Part 3 Class J (office to residential) would have looked if the government had instead tried to achieve this same aim via the NPPF, which in my opinion would have been the appropriate place for such a significant change in national policy. Firstly, it would have meant including a sentence in the NPPF that local authorities, when considering a planning application for office to residential, should completely disregard all considerations about the viability of that particular office, even if it's currently being used as an office. Secondly, it would have meant including a sentence in the NPPF that local authorities, when considering a planning application for office to residential, should completely disregard all considerations about the standard of accommodation for the resulting residential unit(s), including minimum room sizes, minimum unit sizes, amenity space, outlook, etc. I'm pretty certain that if the above type of sentences had been included in the NPPF, they would have received the same type of negative reaction as other parts of the draft NPPF. And yet, as amendments to the GPDO, such changes seem to have a much lower public and media profile. Thanks, Steve</summary>
    <dc:creator>Steve Speed The Planning Jungle website</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2013-08-07T17:43:41Z</dc:date>
  </entry>
  <entry>
    <title>Re: Consultation on new permitted changes of use</title>
    <link rel="alternate" href="https://khub.net/cy/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=6236404" />
    <author>
      <name>Steve Speed The Planning Jungle website</name>
    </author>
    <id>https://khub.net/cy/c/message_boards/find_message?p_l_id=53683759&amp;messageId=6236404</id>
    <updated>2013-08-07T11:04:38Z</updated>
    <published>2013-08-07T11:04:38Z</published>
    <summary type="html">Hi Jonathan, I think your final paragraph sums up the process well. At some point I want to write a detailed post about the "Impact Assessment" for the recent changes to Part 1 of the GPDO, because it's shocking when you realise how many of the key pieces of "evidence" that were used to justify the changes simply don't stand up to any level of scrutiny. The government press release to which you've provided a link is also fairly typical of how these things work. The main impact of these new proposals upon high streets would be allowing A1 and A2 properties to convert to houses and flats. The government press release indicates that these new proposals are supported by the "Portas Review" by stating the following: "The proposals reflect the advice of the Portas Review, which recommended more flexibility for change of use, and would help the high street, rural communities and local retailers by increasing footfall and spending." And yet, if you follow the link in the government press release to the "Portas Review" document, then there doesn't appear to be anything in there that supports the idea of allowing A1 and A2 properties to convert to houses and flats. Indeed, Portas talks about allowing empty retail units on high streets to be used for a range of community uses (e.g. schools, gyms, youth clubs, yoga, bingo, etc), and doesn't mention anything about allowing them to be converted into private houses and flats. Thanks, Steve</summary>
    <dc:creator>Steve Speed The Planning Jungle website</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2013-08-07T11:04:38Z</dc:date>
  </entry>
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