Can you apply for something that does not need PP? - Public forum - Planning Advisory Service (PAS)
Can you apply for something that does not need PP?
Cazzy 33, modified 3 Months ago.
Can you apply for something that does not need PP?
New Member Posts: 12 Join Date: 14/06/24 Recent PostsAn application has come in for a unit that is currently a shop and they want to use it as a restaurant. The restaurant would not need PP as both Class E, but it does need a flue erecting on the outside of the building and that does need permission.
They have applied for both on the application form.
When contacted they said they want to retain the restaurant use in the description to give them assurity it is all above board from a planning perspective, rather than having to make a separate Certificate of Lawfulness application.
Can this be done? I can't find any authority on it.
Thanks
richard white, modified 3 Months ago.
RE: Can you apply for something that does not need PP?
Advocate Posts: 230 Join Date: 26/11/18 Recent PostsThere was a case in the 90's that said that yes, since the 91 Act introduced the CoL powers, that a planning authority could no longer issue a decision on a planning application that said 'permission was not required' - rather what they are required to do is determine the application in the normal way
But the fact that permission is not required is an obvious mat con to consider both with regards to the acceptabilty of the proposal and conditions. If for example you had a shopping area policy which resisted restaurant uses in favour of old A1 retail you would still have to say that the proposal conflicted with this policy, but the mat con that permission is not in fact required justifies a departure and an approval.
Hope that helps
Richard McEllistrum, modified 3 Months ago.
RE: Can you apply for something that does not need PP?
New Member Posts: 2 Join Date: 28/02/18 Recent PostsYes, absolutely. The Saxby case (which took me forever to track down) is, IIRC, the relevant case.
Cazzy 33, modified 3 Months ago.
RE: Can you apply for something that does not need PP?
New Member Posts: 12 Join Date: 14/06/24 Recent PostsThank you both. I am assuming it would be the same principle for something that is not development, not just something that is development but is PD?
Graham Wilkinson, modified 3 Months ago.
RE: Can you apply for something that does not need PP?
New Member Posts: 2 Join Date: 30/05/23 Recent PostsCazzy 33:Thank you both. I am assuming it would be the same principle for something that is not development, not just something that is development but is PD?
Hi Cazzy,
I'm not sure it would. s.57(1) states that "planning permission is required for the carrying out of any development of land.", so anything falling outside the definition of development in s.55 would not require planning permission. I don't think anyone would entertain an application for the planting of a tree, for example.
The case you have is slightly less clear-cut, however. It's perfectly possible for two uses within the same use class to be materially different from each other. Or following the intensification of a single use, the activity taking place to be different from the activity taking place before the intensification, to the point that the degree of change in the nature of the use would be material and planning permission would be required. So theoretically there's always a degree of judgement (however brief) as to whether a material change of use has occurred. The uses classes are just a guide, rather than a rule.
So I'd suggest that if the applicant (or LPA) believes that the two uses will be materially different, and wants the change to be assessed an application could be entertained (or requested).
That being said, if the application was being made on the basis of a misunderstanding and the LPA was confident the two uses were not materially different and was happy to put that in writing, then it could offer the applicant the chance to withdraw the application on that basis. If this was done prior to validation they would get their application fee back, less any admin fee you might charge.
Richard McEllistrum, modified 3 Months ago.
RE: Can you apply for something that does not need PP?
New Member Posts: 2 Join Date: 28/02/18 Recent PostsYes, section 55 and 57 together only require that consent is required for certain types of development, not that consent cannot be sought or be given for anything which does not comprise development. If I applied for planning permission for a tiny sandcastle in my back garden, the LPA would not be able to decline to determine the application, as the powers to do so are very tightly defined.
Brian Forsyth, modified 1 Month ago.
RE: Can you apply for something that does not need PP?
New Member Posts: 3 Join Date: 14/03/25 Recent PostsRichard McEllistrum:Yes, section 55 and 57 together only require that consent is required for certain types of development, not that consent cannot be sought or be given for anything which does not comprise development. If I applied for planning permission for a tiny sandcastle in my back garden, the LPA would not be able to decline to determine the application, as the powers to do so are very tightly defined.
Forgive me for asking, but are you saying that an LPA is obliged to entertain applications for planning permission for that which is not development at all? You give the example of a small sandcastle. Might the obligation extend to the bucket and spade, the boy who has the bucket and spade, and the sea, or is there some limitation?