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Beginner in CIL

Brenda Rogers, modified 7 Years ago.

Beginner in CIL

New Member Posts: 16 Join Date: 14/03/17 Recent Posts

Hi Everyone

I am a beginner in CIL (and only temporary while we try and appoint someone who knows what they are doing) and wanted to get your views on what is, I am sure, a few quite simple questions:

If there is an application to convert an existing building into a new dwelling (CIL liable) with no added floor area, and it is confirmed that the existing building has been in use for 6 consecutive months in last three years, do you send a £0 liability notice, or would you say that the proposal is not CIL liable and just send them a letter saying they are not liable for CIL?

If the existing building is a barn, is there any need to ascertain whether the building was in use in the past three years and, if so, how do you do that?

And, finally, what evidence do you ask for to confirm that a building has been in use for 6 consecutive months?

Apologies for what are probably very simple questions but I am getting myself confused!

Thanks.

Brenda

Former Member, modified 7 Years ago.

RE: Beginner in CIL

If there is an application to convert an existing building into a new dwelling (CIL liable) with no added floor area, and it is confirmed that the existing building has been in use for 6 consecutive months in last three years, do you send a £0 liability notice, or would you say that the proposal is not CIL liable and just send them a letter saying they are not liable for CIL?

- Under R42, the approved development is to create a new dwelling and therefore it is liable for CIL. If they can demonstrate "in-use", and there's no new floorspace being created, then it just won't be chargeable. So liable not chargeable. As its liable, I'd send a liability notice for zero, usually accompanied by a cover letter confirming no further actions are required in respect of CIL.

 

If the existing building is a barn, is there any need to ascertain whether the building was in use in the past three years and, if so, how do you do that?

And, finally, what evidence do you ask for to confirm that a building has been in use for 6 consecutive months?

- Different councils do this differently, so it's up to you how you approach it and what evidence you require. We'd require evidence - but as it's a barn it's often harder for people to provide the usual evidence (council tax, business rates, invoices, utility bills etc) that can show use/occupation so evidence can simply be a signed statement, or affidavit, confirming its been in use / how long for / what for / who by.

 

 

 

Brenda Rogers, modified 7 Years ago.

RE: Beginner in CIL

New Member Posts: 16 Join Date: 14/03/17 Recent Posts

Thank you very much.  That is very helpful.

 

Carol Gore, modified 7 Years ago.

RE: Beginner in CIL

Enthusiast Posts: 42 Join Date: 20/10/11 Recent Posts

Hi Brenda,

I would agree with Helen.

 

The only thing we don't do is send out a Liability Notice when it is liable, but not chargeable.  As it is £0 because of an offset for existing floorspace, we send out an email stating that it is liable, but not chargeable, and ask them if they want a liability notice to confirm that fact.

Obviously, this is different if the £0 is because of relief / exemptions, as there would be a clawback attached to it, so a Liability notice is sent out in those instances.

Brenda Rogers, modified 7 Years ago.

RE: Beginner in CIL

New Member Posts: 16 Join Date: 14/03/17 Recent Posts

Thank you.  This is the second time I have been heard that a liability notice isn't sent out by a Council in these circumstances.  I personally think that this way seems a lot less bureaucratic (especially when I am struggling to get any response regarding an assumption of liablity form). But wasn't sure whether £0 liability notice was legally required.   If I can get away with asking whether they want a liability notice to confirm the fact then I think I might go along with this scenario. 

Does anyone think that we really shouldn't be following this course?

Steve Hobdell, modified 7 Years ago.

RE: Beginner in CIL

New Member Posts: 3 Join Date: 20/10/11 Recent Posts

I would be careful in not sending out a Liability Notice just because it's a Nil amount. Your Local Land Charges Team have to reveal on the CON29 element of Land Charge Searches whether a Liability Notice has been issued so they would need to know. It may also be something the developer or applicant would want as evidence that CIL has been dealt with, even though they might not appreciate that fact at this stage but will do in future when and if selling the property.

I agree it does seem pointless and a lot of effort when no money is coming in, but there are the wider implications.

Carol Gore, modified 7 Years ago.

RE: Beginner in CIL

Enthusiast Posts: 42 Join Date: 20/10/11 Recent Posts

I think it depends on your systems and processes.

We have decided to complete all CIL Liable applications on a tracking sheet, with values.

The LCC team use that to create the CON29, not the Liability Notices.  This is because our tracking form is updated at all times, and we just tick if any forms (such as Form 1, 6, 7 part 1 etc) have been recieved, so the LCC stay up to date.

For those without a Liability Notice, it is still recorded on the LCC, but as a £0 charge.

Brenda Rogers, modified 7 Years ago.

RE: Beginner in CIL

New Member Posts: 16 Join Date: 14/03/17 Recent Posts

I am wavering now as the CON29 says "Has a Liability Notice been issued".  Strictly speaking I suppose you cannot say Yes if you haven't actually produced one (what if you are then asked for a copy?).  Think I am reluctantly going to go with the issue one option.

 

Simon Anstey, modified 7 Years ago.

RE: Beginner in CIL

Enthusiast Posts: 74 Join Date: 17/07/15 Recent Posts

I would also send a Liability Notice for zero in a case like this. The system I use (Exacom) enables me to input any existing areas I have taken into account and then shows the offset workings in the Liability Notice so it is good confirmation for both the applicant and the council that the offset has been made and why liability is nil. For example:

Brenda Rogers, modified 7 Years ago.

RE: Beginner in CIL

New Member Posts: 16 Join Date: 14/03/17 Recent Posts
Yes, we have Exacom as well so it does help in setting it all out. 
Carol Gore, modified 7 Years ago.

RE: Beginner in CIL

Enthusiast Posts: 42 Join Date: 20/10/11 Recent Posts

Ah - we are still waiting for Exacom, so life is all administration and spreadsheets here !!

 

Rebecca Randall, modified 7 Years ago.

RE: Beginner in CIL

Enthusiast Posts: 60 Join Date: 06/05/14 Recent Posts

We send out liability notices, it is a requirement of the Regs to send one out on all CIL liable developments whatever the charge. However you do CIL you need to get to a system where you can quickly send out notices, currently we have 100+ going out a year (and potentially ten times that if they implement the CIL panel's recommendations!!) so you need something efficient. Then it wouldnt matter if you have to send out zero notices as its a five minute job.

We have a lot of barns being converted and do ask for evidence on the basis of R. 40(9) and the Hourhope High Court decision both of these are pre-cautionary. I tend to also speak to Case Officer, quick check of historic site visits from previous apps, but ultimately leave it as the applicant's responsibility to prove if there's any doubt. We also ask for sworn statements, photos, delivery records, anything to prove use. 

 

Hope this helps

Brenda Rogers, modified 7 Years ago.

RE: Beginner in CIL

New Member Posts: 16 Join Date: 14/03/17 Recent Posts

Thank you for all of your advice above. 

 

Can you tell me how you deal with people who do not respond to requests for Assumption of Liability, and subsequently requests for evidence of use (especially with regards to barn conversions where there would be a zero liability with proof of use)?  Do you just send out a Liability Notice to the Land Owner for the full amount, assuming that this will wake therm up?  And then deal with the consequences of them realising that this is important? 

Rebecca Randall, modified 7 Years ago.

RE: Beginner in CIL

Enthusiast Posts: 60 Join Date: 06/05/14 Recent Posts

I send out the notice with the full amount if its a barn conversion, unless a quick history search and chat with the case officer makes it 100% clear its been in use. They have 6 months from the date of issuing the L Notice to ask for a review of the chargeable amount under R.113 so I let them provide evidence that way. Otherwise they can keep coming back to try and prove a lawful use which can be resource intensive.

Assumption of liability I only ask for once when issuing the Liability Notice, if I dont get it I will add the surcharge when collecting the CIL amount. I dont bother if the amount to pay is nil. Most exemptions require an AoL before you can grant so this often be an incentive.

Brenda Rogers, modified 7 Years ago.

RE: Beginner in CIL

New Member Posts: 16 Join Date: 14/03/17 Recent Posts

Thank you. 

 

REBECCA STADDON, modified 7 Years ago.

RE: Beginner in CIL

Advocate Posts: 103 Join Date: 05/09/13 Recent Posts

Brenda,

Here at TDBC we do exactly what Helen does.

It is a CIL liable development so we send a zer liability notice advising that no further action is required in respect of CIL.

Rebecca