CLEUD Static Caravan - Public forum - Planning Advisory Service (PAS)
CLEUD Static Caravan
Martin ADAMS, modified 7 Years ago.
CLEUD Static Caravan
New Member Posts: 8 Join Date: 15/04/17 Recent PostsWe have bought some land with planning permission for an Ag Tie bungalow, the old owner has lived in her 2 x 10ft static caravans bolted together in breach of her 3 year permission for 17 years.
We have applied and received a Certificate of Lawful Use, but the LPA have stipulated it is for the existing caravan and we cannot change it without permission. I am trying to find some case law to give to them to show that it is a use of land for a caravan and we can therefore change it something more up to date within the definition of a caravan.
I am happy to pay for a specialist (that knows exactly) that they can advise me correctly without overcharging me for a load of woolly stuff.
Hi Martin
Put simply, the Council are wrong! If one caravan has been found to be lawful, then any replacement would also be lawful. The Certificate would confirm that the use of the land for the siting of A caravan is lawful, not THE caravan. Provided that the replacement is also a caravan (as defined in the Caravan Sites Act etc.), then there will be no development involved, and so no requirement for planning permission. The only problem can sometimes be where the Council have put the red line on the Certificate. Is it around the caravan, or is it around a wider area of land (i.e. the planning unit).
Recently I obtained a LDC for just this (i.e. the replacement of a lawful caravan with a new caravan). I have another on the go at the moment!
Regards
Mike Hyde (MH Planning Associates)
Martin ADAMS, modified 7 Years ago.
RE: CLEUD Static Caravan
New Member Posts: 8 Join Date: 15/04/17 Recent PostsHi Michael, Thank you for taking the time to reply. They have put a red line round where they think the caravan is but it is in the wrong place, by about the width of the caravan.
Is there a case that I can send to our officer just to show her. I think she is sypathetic to our case but her boss is being a pain, as it was him that overlooked the original planning 17 years ago and a local councilor is giving him a hard time.
Kind regards
Martin
Hi
It is interesting that a CLU was granted for a caravan – is it a caravan or a building ?
I take it that this ‘caravan’ is within the ‘Size Test’
Is this a twin unit or two single units bolted together to form a larger unit – I may have read this wrong but seems to say two singles ?
When reading the ‘Twin Unit’ criteria alongside the ‘Mobility Test and ‘Size Test’ is it a ‘Building’ if it fails to meet the Caravan Act criteria ?
The construction test states ‘a caravan must be ‘composed of not more than two sections separately constructed.
….the whole must be constructed by the method of first having two separate halves. The two halves of a caravan can be made from many pieces but they must be assembled into
two separate sections….
If the caravan was not constructed in this manner it may be deemed a building’
A recent case for a ‘Caravan’ which was 18” outside the caravan Act definition and could not be shortened due to its modular construction resulted in its demolition ‘not being a
caravan’
Another where an enforcement notice was served for a twin unit modular caravan was quashed due to it ‘not being a caravan’ as it exceeded the definition of a caravan under the Act and so a new notice served for a ‘Building’
The 1997 High Court Decision did give depth to the ‘structure – V – Building’ issue, although other cases since expand upon it.
BYRNE v. SECRETARY OF STATE FOR ENVIRONMENT and ARUN [1997] 74 P & C R 420.
Is it possible you have a building not a caravan ?
Cheers
Martin ADAMS, modified 7 Years ago.
RE: CLEUD Static Caravan
New Member Posts: 8 Join Date: 15/04/17 Recent PostsHi Don, Thank you for your imput.
It is definately a caravan. They are 2 x 10ft x 26ft caravans just pushed together and a hole cut through. There are no foundations or extentions, I have read through the act and it still falls within the definition.
My problem is trying to renew it, the LPA have just come back to me after I challenged the certificate and say if I replace it, it must be like for like which is near-on impossible.
Regards
Martin
andy plan, modified 7 Years ago.
RE: CLEUD Static Caravan
Enthusiast Posts: 25 Join Date: 22/03/13 Recent PostsHi Martin - just stumbled on this one so sorry if I have missed anything but it seems to me that whether or not this is a building or a caravan, you should not take it for granted that you can rely on the Certificate of Lawfulness.
This is because you say that "They have put a red line round where they think the caravan is but it is in the wrong place, by about the width of the caravan." Certificates are not the same as planning permissions and if evidence comes to light after one has been issued which casts doubt on the lawfulness of what it concerns, then it can be revoked. It's probably unlikely that will happen but you need to bear that in mind. I'm currently dealing with a case where the red-line has been put around the wrong building at a farm which the Council intended to issue a Certificate for use as a dwelling. The problem is that for the last 30 years, the building they issued the Certificate for has only been occupied by chickens or pigs! The building they should have issued the Certificate for is 4m away.
On the basis of the information available so far, it might be simpler (and less costly/stressful) to submit a planning application to sort this matter out rather than take issue with the Certificate of Lawfulness. I don't like saying that - but it's worth considering.
There are other questions that your original enquiry raises which might (or might not) be relevant to sorting this matter out but this Forum is not the place to go into detail eg:
- What exactly did you receive a Cert Lawfulness for (what was the description of development)?
- Rather than trying to "renew" the Certificate, are you seeking to amend it somehow?
- Was the Ag Tie house ever built or did the owners leave it and live in the caravans instead?
- Are the caravans a breach of a planning condition attached to the Ag Tie house?
- As Michael Hyde says, the "planning unit" is important in all of this and I'm afraid that's only one small part of the "wooly stuff" you need to consider!
- If the 2xbolted together caravans have been there for 17 years, what "original planning" was "overlooked" 17 years ago?
If you have already challenged the Certificate then you should look to employ a planning consultant ASAP to get to the bottom of this.
Apologies if I have made this appear more complicated than you thought it would be but it's worth looking at the bigger picture.
Andy