static caravan in garden - Public forum - Planning Advisory Service (PAS)
static caravan in garden
Hi we have a huge garden, 35m x 11m. We have bought a caravan pod to use as an extra room when our daughter comes home and garden office. If we place the caravan on the slope at the back of the garden it will have views out to sea, we will only overlook one neighbour, but not too badly as our boundary has trees and bushes already established along the length. Our back fence backs onto a road rather than another garden, some neighbours have made garages and drives onto the road behind.
We can place it 2m away from boudaries easily, it's base is 4.2x2.01. Our problem is the garden slopes, we want to place the caravan on stilts, one end at the top of a slope while the other end will be on raised stilts about 1.5m high. The slope underneath will be left covered in fern and foliage.
From what I can see in permitted development we could place the caravan on flat ground, or on a drive/ platform no more than 50cm high, but we will need planning permission as we have to construct a structure to support it that will be more than 0.5m at the floor level. Is this right?
In brief, do we need planning if we build a structure on the slope to support the caravan?
If we build the ground up under the caravan to hide the stilts, and to within 0.5m of the floor height will this comply with the permitted development rule?
I have contacted my local planning office but they sent an email instructing me to work it out for myself!
Thanks
Ted Slevin, modified 6 Years ago.
RE: static caravan in garden
Enthusiast Posts: 43 Join Date: 24/01/17 Recent PostsThe planning officer’s response is his only possible answer looking at the situation from his point of view
The rules can be subject to massive variations of interpretation. Whatever he advises he could be challenged by a colleague later which could lead to conflict for him which could leave the planning officer being reprimanded by a councillor who can take arbitrary sides
For example, in one case the garden was larger than yours and it was initially considered as not being within the cartilage of the property. You say you have trees, these could be construed as a boundary instrument And you could suffer from the same problem. But if others have built garages with or without permission in the same situatiion then you can safley assume that its within your curtalage.
I don't like saying it but you might have been better not asking the planning officer particularly in writing as he is now obliged to watch what you do carefully as he cannot say later that no one brought it to his attention.
If you can afford to put the caravan wherever you like and move it if it's objected too then I would take the risk and place it in the best position for yourself taking into account that if you alienate a neighbour you will cause more trouble than it's worth.
If you cannot afford to move the caravan if things go against you then be uncontroversial and place the caravan clearly in the curtilage as close as you like to the boundary and build up the ground round it so it's workable
An ideal solution might be to place the caravan as above initially and then modify the garden in such a way to ensure that the place you really want it is clearly in the garden with nothing which could be construed as a boundary and that the ground is flat then later move the caravan to the new place in the garden
If the caravan can see the sea then it must be a beautiful spot. if you can afford to move it if you get trouble (which is unlikley if you are nice to everone)then place it in the best possible spot.
It is very possible that planning officers have much more important troubles to be bothered than any minor contraventions on your part sorting out realy important issuses such as fire regulations.
There are many other options available to you if you want to ring me on 01257463227 or email me on trashcan@microface.com with the word planning in the subject
Ted Slevin B.Tech M.Sc.
Thanks, for these quick responses.
The caravan pod will remain a caravan, it sits on four 'stilts' , to move it would require lifting it off the four stilts and placing it on a trailer, using a crane. It has been designed to be classed as a caravan, to be sold on or to be moved from site to site.
It's the sloping garden that causes us problems, if it was flat the pod would require four feet to rest on, we have to build legs and feet, causing one side to be higher off the ground. There are a number of houses that have built drives at the back of their garden onto the road behind ,then parked a touring caravan on it. I'm not sure if doing the same thing and parking a static caravan on it would be considered permitted development as we would still need to build a platform or dirveway. This structure will be more that 50 cm off the existing ground level.
Ted Slevin, modified 6 Years ago.
RE: static caravan in garden
Enthusiast Posts: 43 Join Date: 24/01/17 Recent PostsI Have seen this pushing of the definition of a caravan before and it’s all too easy for a salesman to sell you this line but it needs to be tested more than it has.
I think it would be acceptable to have to put a caravan in place with a crane for it still to be a caravan. I have also seen it argued that although it does not have wheels it has a sledge which can allow it to be dragged by a tractor. However to argue that it’s a sledge but must be put in place with a Crain is pushing the definition too far and will evoke a strong response for the council. They already don't like accepting caravans without wheels. THEY WOULD LICKLY USE THIS AS AN EXTREEM TEST CASE
If I was a planning officer presented with this I WOULD FIGHT IT TOOTH AND NAIL AS IT OPENs THE DOORES TO VERTUALY ANY BUILDING BEING PLACED BY ANY METHOD BEING CALLED A CARAVAN.
MY ADVICE WOULD BE TO KEEP WELL WITHIN THE RULES.
IT SHOULD HAVE WHEELS AND BE CAPABLE OF BEING MOVED BY A Vehicle ON A PRIVATE ROAD I.E. IT DOES NOT NEED TO BE public ROAD WORTHEY.
THESE Wheels SHOULD BE KEPT ON IT where ever THE CARAVAN IS PUT. IT MUST BE ABLE TO BE LIFTED OFF BY A crane AND IMMIDIATELY DRAGGED AROUND WITH A VEHICLE WIHTHOUT ADDING ANYTHING TO IT TO DO THIS.
This definition also means it’s not a building and is therefore not subject to the 2 metres from a boundary rule. I say this in case you have a better spot which you are avoiding because of the 2-metre rule.
Ted
thanks Ted, there are a few comments there that hit a note with me. I think we need to have a rethink on our approach to this, and it doesn't match what we thought before purchase.
Ted Slevin, modified 6 Years ago.
RE: static caravan in garden
Enthusiast Posts: 43 Join Date: 24/01/17 Recent PostsI think now we have all decided that there is a good change it may float if care is taken over the levelling process.
One final comment I would make is that this installation is sailing close to the wind and everythng must be right to stop the planning authority looking for problems.
Particularly problems could be experienced if the drainage works have not been approved.
If there is any doubt and the pod is about to arrive I would always recommend that a chemical toilet be used to start with and then get a fully approved sewerage installation once the deed is done and any reaction died down.
Best of luck and dont foget to tell us what happenes as we only learn by experaince on this subject
I apoogise for the typoes but "predictive apple" is not my first language
I
Ted Slevin, modified 6 Years ago.
RE: static caravan in garden
Enthusiast Posts: 43 Join Date: 24/01/17 Recent Posts
The answer from Michael Is of course technically correct however the interpretation of this wording has ended up in the high court before now and it's better to avoid all these problems by making an obvious caravan with wheels on
The wording was in my opinion written to cover the situation which was already standard practice in the uk of constructing caravans which where not public road capable and had to be moved by being pulled and loaded on a vehicle for some journeys but they could not use the word "and" as sometimes if the journey was not on public roads then "or" was appropriate.
This "or" can of course be exploited to say that the "or" refers to the caravan not the journey. Perhaps this is an argument that we should return to Latin for maters of law
I agree that provided that Maggie can afford the trouble it could cause they should go ahead
If there is any danger that they will run out of money with the first argument then they should follow my original advice
If they do go ahead they should at least in my opinion make the ground level in an act which is totally devolved from the caravan so it can not be argued that the caravan has been modified in such a way as to make it permanent
Perhaps a good idea would be to get the company who supplied the pod to confirm in writing that the pod is compliant so they can be held responsible for any subsequent action be the council but I doubt they would agree to this which says a great deal about the situation
If its 4m by 2m and you need 1.5m+ stilts to support one end then I guess you have a short end facing the sea view, could you not turn the caravan around, with a longer side facing the view, this should mean a lot less structure to support it and it might remain a caravan and not beome a building with engineering works needed
by the way I go with the advise that the caravan becomes a building if the structure and engineering needed to enable the siting is as signficant as you describe
The caravan only has one window and one door, one on each short end, we have to put it side on to get the view from the window. There has been a great deal of previous landscaping, cutting into the hill for steps and to place a summer house. I feel we may be able restore the level to match an existing level on the other side of steps, meaning we won't need to have such tall supports.
Thanks for all the advice, it has been very useful in helping me visualise how we can achieve this project that we have already started, perhaps unwisely.